EDITIORIAL: Is Not Crossing That Line Still A Hero Trait

EDITIORIAL: Is Not Crossing That Line Still A Hero Trait

In today's world is it important if a hero doesn't kill or does kill. I look into a major difference in heroes from Marvel and DC.

Editorial Opinion
By LEVITIKUZ - Sep 05, 2012 03:09 PM EST
Filed Under: Comics

I was watching some Marvel movies the other day and there something hit me that never him me before. Most Marvel heroes kill. Now I didn’t grow up a Marvel fan. I love Marvel, their characters, movies, and universe but I grew up watching DC movies and cartoons. I would watch Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The Animated Series, and Justice League. I grew up knowing that DC heroes don’t kill and yet Marvel heroes do which leads me to this point: Is not killing major trait in a hero? I’m going to look at both the Marvel and DC side.

Marvel




Most of the heroes from Marvel kill. We see Iron Man kill his villains in the live action movies and kill terrorists. In just about every X-Men movie we see members of the X-Men kill. Heroes like Wolverine, the Punisher, and Deadpool kill everything in sight. In the comics, Elektra kills. In the Avengers movie, we see Hawkeye kill. Also in the Avengers we know Black Widow has a shady history and we saw her kill in Iron Man 2. We see the Hulk destroy and most likely kill US soldiers whenever they go after Hulk. The only exception I could give is Captain America because he is a soldier and became a hero during a time of war unlike most Marvel heroes. Sure back in WWII Cap was a hero, but in today’s world can we still consider him a soldier? It is likely he got a discharge but he’s still fighting. Why do these heroes feel the need to kill? Being a hero you’re suppose to save and protect as much life as you can. I do not hate Marvel heroes. They get the job done but must you bend the rules in order to get the job done?



The only big Marvel hero we see not kill is Spider-Man. Spider-Man is Marvel’s biggest hero. After Batman & Superman, most people know Spider-Man. What makes Spidey different from other heroes from Marvel? Could it be the fact that basically Spider-Man is just a kid? Most of the superheroes we know are grown men and women in their late 20s to late 30s. Spider-Man is seen as a teenager. Most teenagers are seen as sidekicks but Spidey becomes his own man while being a teen. Another factor could be the tragedy in Spidey’s life. We see Peter Parker grow up without his parents and lose his uncle. The only real point one could make that Spidey has killed is the controversial death of Gwen Stacy in the comics. Since that event fans along with Spidey has question; Was it the Goblin who killed Gwen or Spidey’s web that killed Gwen. After Gwen’s death we see Spider-Man mourning. Spider-Man is the only hero who gets crap thrown in his life so many times and him still keep his morals. Maybe the factor of him being a kid is why he doesn’t kill.

DC




The one thing most DC characters have in common is that they do not kill. We all know Batman’s rules. No guns, no killing. A lesson he follows and has taught to his sidekicks. Also Superman does not kill. We see Superman save people’s lives no matter whose it is. Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and the rest don’t kill either. The only heroes we see kill, if we can call him a hero is Jason Todd but for the most part that’s it. No matter whom it is DC heroes don’t kill. For example, in the video game Batman: Arkham City, people have said the reason Batman is sad is that the Joker is dead. That is not the case. Batman doesn’t care if Joker’s dead, Batman is more depressed over the fact he couldn’t save a life. There have been times they have and in those times it has proven fatal to that hero. In the book The Death of Superman, Superman realizes the only way to end the fight with Doomsday is to kill him. Superman does kill him (for the time being) but at the same time, after that battle Superman also dies. If was a win-lose type of situation. Superman knew he would die in how he would kill Doomsday and he still decided to go off that plan. In the comics, we see Batman attempting to kill Darkseid. The bullet didn’t kill Darkseid. As Batman shot Darkseid, Darkseid shot Batman with his Omega Sanction killing Batman. Batman went against a vow his has taken for years to try to end a conflict and paid the ultimate price.

As I said before, this is not to stab at Marvel and their heroes. It’s an article about a main difference with Marvel’s heroes and DC’s heroes. It seems Marvel’s heroes aren’t afraid to cross the line as much as DC’s heroes but at the same time is Marvel’s way as effective as DC’s? Both sides have heroes that have been victorious in battle. Do you believe a hero needs to cross that line in order to save the day? Leave a comment.

About The Author:
LEVITIKUZ
Member Since 5/1/2012
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EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 9/5/2012, 3:49 PM
@Spidey23: I don't mean to be a dick but did you pay attention to the movies.
Saga
Saga - 9/5/2012, 3:51 PM
Batman killed a guy in Batman Returns
CoolantTech
CoolantTech - 9/5/2012, 3:59 PM
Batman killed 2 face in TDK
BarnaclePete
BarnaclePete - 9/5/2012, 3:59 PM
Lots of characters kill in DC comics. You're just focusing on a limited few. Of which Wonder Woman kills. Green Lantern killed too.
BarnaclePete
BarnaclePete - 9/5/2012, 4:02 PM
Oh and Flash too.
AntiTheon
AntiTheon - 9/5/2012, 6:33 PM
According to an earlier poster "Batman murdering Ra's." Wow. He "murdered" him? Or as a later poster claimed, he "killed" him?

A good analogy would be me not saving you from a house which is on fire (which you coincidentally had a hand in setting on alight to harm others, not that it matters). Does that make me a "murderer" or a "killer"? In the case of the film, the dialog even spelled it out for you in case it was too fine a point for you. They pretty much idiot proofed it.

I think you fellows need either a dictionary to get your words straight or some sort of Holy Book to swear on to keep you honest. Either way, tough to have a conversation when posters have issues like that.
ArtisticErotic
ArtisticErotic - 9/5/2012, 7:28 PM
Green Arrow Kills

Green Lanterns kill

Wonderwoman kills

Aquaman Kills


Also Batman did not kill Ra's. He said he just let him fall to his death. "I'm not going to kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you" That's not killing someone. I'll give you maybe Harvey Dent and some people in TDKR.

Now in the Burton Batman films he killed left and right. But those movies were pretty shitty to begin with besides the music score that is.
AntiTheon
AntiTheon - 9/5/2012, 9:11 PM
yossarian - 9/5/2012, 6:39 PM
Report Comment
@anti - Okay. Why don't you:
7 - Explain steps 1-6 to the cops.
8 - Report back and tell us all what they charge you with.

The guy on the train has a bomb, was already carrying out a terrorist attack and in the process of inflicting an even larger one, which my actions thwarted. I've even got a member of law enforcement in on it to back up my version of the story.

Not only are there laws that cover my actions, I'll get a medal.

You've been dishonest or lied by omission twice in a row when you don't even NEED to be. The movies provide easy points without the need for your dishonesty.

This isn't worth any more of my time. I can suffer fools, but I have no time for liars: somebody who lies when they don't even need to qualifies as both.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 9/5/2012, 9:28 PM
Let's not bicker and bother about 'who killed who'.....

AntiTheon, you're a fool...


Good article, by the way!
Marvel flops around with this more often than not, although Spider-man has NEVER crossed the line. In the 80s, it was considered taboo, and Hawkeye was all up in arms because Mockingbird killed her mind-rapist... decades later, and Hawkeye kills the Mockingbird Sleeper Skrull in cold blood.

Superman: Red Son illustrates this perfectly. Even though he's been brought up in Soviet Russia, Kal-El refuses to be a "killer" by the most literal definition. After "beating" Brainiac, he uses his technology to turn rebels into mindless, obedient, lobotomized drones - thinking he's curing their "ailments".

Lex Luthor defeats him with a single message


^That is definitive.
ArtisticErotic
ArtisticErotic - 9/5/2012, 10:25 PM
Ra's is the one who created the situation, not Batman. Batman tried to stop the situation Ra's created.

Batman not saving Ra is not an act of Batman killing him, it's called moral ambiguity.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/6/2012, 4:58 AM
If you're going by the comics, then you are completely wrong.

The X-Men do not kill as a whole, sure some characters like Wolverine do, but it is certainly not condoned by the X-Men.

Spider-Man doesn't kill.

Daredevil doesn't kill.

Captain America doesn't kill.

DC might have MORE characters that don't kill, but to say that all of Marvel's characters except Spidey kill people is ridiculous...

Movies bend the actual comics to make the characters look more hardcore. Even DC movies. Batman killed tons of people in the 90's movies. He let Ra'z al Ghul die in Batman Begins, which is just as bad.

Point is, if you're going to compare the two, you have to go by the comics, not the movies, because the movies are never 100% accurate.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/6/2012, 5:04 AM
Batman '89: Batman threw that Joker thug down the bell tower. dead.

Batman killed Joker. dead

Batman Returns: Batman lit that clown on fire with the engine of the batmobile. dead

Batman stuck a bomb on that big muscle guy/penguin thug and he exploded. dead

Batman killed Penguin. dead.

Batman Forever: Batman killed Two-Face. dead


Again, you can't go by the movies. Batman has killed so many people in the movies, yet in the comics, we all know the one thing he DOES NOT DO, is kill people...
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 9/6/2012, 7:02 AM
@yossarian
I really like Superman: For All Seasons, and Superman: Kryptonite - both featuring Tim Sale's art, with Jeph Loeb writing the former, Darwyn Cooke writing the latter.

They depict Superman in standalone stories, in his early years, and Lex really screws with him.
ellispart3
ellispart3 - 9/6/2012, 8:39 AM
i love this..
@yossarian
get ahold of superman for tomorrow by azzerello. also, you may dig all star superman.

as far as killing, everyone has their limits. plain and simple. the marvel characters have been pushed dramatically to that limit as well as the dc characters. Yes marvel has a few key players that have killed in the comics, Dardevil kills Bullseye in that shadowland run. wonder woman snaps maxwell lord's neck. dick grayson, though doubtful gave his consent for tarantula to kill blockbuster right in front of him (yes, a stretch, but still had an accomplice).

its not easy to say one way or another that killing or not killing should decide a hero or not.

he·ro   [heer-oh]
noun, plural he·roes.
1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal.

her·o·ine   [her-oh-in]
noun
1. a woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities.

nothing says anything about killing, heroism is relative. now with comic books, i love with lines are blurred or crossed but characters with moral codes. that level of drama (when done correctly) is the reason why i read comic books in the first place.
ellispart3
ellispart3 - 9/6/2012, 9:14 AM
@yossarian
not a problem, and thanks.
SageMode
SageMode - 9/6/2012, 10:34 AM
BTW, The Batman that shot Darkseid was NOT the real Batman.....it was a clone created by Darkseid prior to the events Final Crisis and was revealed towards the end of the whole Blackest Night/Brightest Day saga.
SageMode
SageMode - 9/6/2012, 10:38 AM
CORNDOGBURGLAR

If I remember correctly, Captain America has actually killed before. He decapitated Baron Blood at the end of their battle back in the day. Not sure about anytime else.
ironpool007
ironpool007 - 9/6/2012, 1:43 PM
Spider-Man has been a grown man for years. Only, in the Ultmate universe, did he remain a kid.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/6/2012, 8:18 PM
I dont care what anyone says, Batman letting Ra's die in Batman Begins is no better than outright killing him.

Look at it like this: Batman has saved the Joker's life countless times in the comics. The goddamn Joker. His deadliest and worst enemy. Why? Because killing people goes against what he stands for. You know what else goes against what he stands for? Letting people die when he can prevent it, regardless of how sick, evil, or deranged the person is.

The one thing Batman and Superman have in common is their ideal of preserving life. If they stand by and watch someone die when they have the opportunity to save them, then they might as well have killed that person themselves.

Point is, if Batman refuses to let even the Joker die for this reason, then he certainly would not let Ra's die.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/6/2012, 8:24 PM
@ sagemode

That may be the case, but he still stands by his view of no killing. He may have broken that rule once, but it certainly doesnt make him an anti-hero like what this article is really getting at. Other than that, he refuses to take life, and refuses to allow any Avengers to kill. He threw Wolverine out of an airplane because he knew what Wolvie was going to do to Hope Summers. Y'know what i mean?
TheMyth
TheMyth - 9/7/2012, 5:54 AM
Is not killing still a hero trait? Certainly! Does killing mean you aren't a hero? Of course not.

Morality is a tricky thing because it's relative. True, some things we know to be intrinsically wrong, like murder, theft and rape. But there are a lot of gray areas, and even some of those undoubtedly morally wrong things can be justified. You and your children are starving, your choice is steal food or die. While it's wrong to steal, it would also be wrong to allow those children to die. If Batman had killed the Joker years ago, how many lives would've been saved by his absence? Some feel that the means justify the ends, like Wolverine or Punisher, whereby killing this villain prevents him from doing more harm. Some feel that the morality of the action itself determines right or wrong, Like Batman or Supes, whereby no matter how many lives it may save murder is murder. Then there are those that feel it is the motives of the person that matter, like Xavier, whereby doing a good or even great thing is morally wrong if you do it with bad motivations and visa versa.
manymade1
manymade1 - 9/7/2012, 10:03 AM
Marvel didn't always kill. I think the Ultimate Universe was where most of the heroes(Most = All but Spidey) started to kill and when Bendis took over the main universe he carried on that trait to it.
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