EDITORIAL: Should Sony Kill Gwen Stacy?

EDITORIAL: Should Sony Kill Gwen Stacy?

BattlinMurdock asks: What should the studio producing the Spider-Man films do when it comes to the infamous Gwen Stacy "problem?"

Editorial Opinion
By BattlinMurdock - Aug 19, 2012 04:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man



In 1973, there was an uproar in the comic world as it was revealed that Spider-Man, for once, did not save the day. On the contrary, his act of attempted rescue perpetuated the death of his girlfriend, Gwen Stacy. The act was so controversial, issue 121 is sometimes used as reference to be the catalyst for the end of the Silver Age of comic books. Needless to say, the death of Gwen Stacy is a pivotal and concrete part of not only the Spider-Man mythos; but of the comic book industry.

But should Sony follow suit?

I, for one, have been vocal about my disappointment with The Amazing Spider-Man, debating (sometimes, too intensely, and for that, I hope you accept my apology) that the film was lacking in many areas; one being that of the relationship between Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy. I found it to be incredibly underdeveloped for the sake of being "cute" and found that Peter's decision to abandon his promise to Captain Stacy to be against the character the movie worked so hard to establish. That being said, this editorial is not about what I thought about The Amazing Spider-Man. I want to open up discussion about if the death of Gwen Stacy should be used in a set of movies announced by Sony to be a trilogy.

Take this into consideration; it is often easy for us to pass over the importance of Gwen Stacy's death because, by this point in time, we've been given time to "cope" with the loss. Not to make it too sentimental, but we're able to justify the loss of Gwen Stacy with decades of new Spider-Man characters, stories, and relationships and able to hold issue 121 reverent for the fact that it morphed many a favorite's superhero into the icon he is today. Case in point; the death of Gwen Stacy could be argued to make Spider-Man, as a character, one of the greatest of all time, as we've seen him develop from the incident.



That being said, we are not the "general" audience. As comic book fans, we expect Gwen Stacy to be die, Peter to become a hero, and Peter to start a relationship (and eventual marriage) with the character of Mary Jane Watson. And we expect Peter to develop from his loss of Gwen to become a stronger, more developed character. The problem is this: we're only getting three movies, and we've already had one.

I'm trying to view this issue as a general audience member, not a comic fan who sees the death of Gwen necessary for Peter to become who he is today. If Gwen dies in the second film, will their relationship be developed enough for people to care? Of course, we won't know until the film comes out, but it will be a difficult task based on the information we know from the first film (she likes Peter because he's quirky, smart, and Spider-Man...even though she knows a minimal amount about his personal life; he likes her because she's quirky, pretty, smart, and notices him). So, let's analyze this a bit more in two scenarios.

1) If Gwen dies in the second film, the movie will have to work harder to develop the relationship into something more than what's cute to watch. Which means we could get a Spider-Man sequel that ups the romance and minimizes everything else (theoretically, this could be disputed). The pro to her death in the second movie is that we get to see Peter cope, develop, and become more of the icon that he is in today's cultural standing. Peter becomes more than just a hero attempting to seek revenge and gets a chance to forgive himself.

2) If Gwen dies in the third film (excluding that it happens in the beginning), then it almost defeats the purpose of seeing their relationship develop in the second movie if Peter has no time to adequately be developed. If the middle of the movie, or especially the climax of the trilogy is Gwen Stacy's demise, then that leaves us with a disgruntled, depressed (albeit, I suppose "real") Peter Parker. And quite frankly, it leaves the audience with a sour taste in their mouth. To put it simply, Sony would have to have some big cojones to pull off that kind of ending, and if it wasn't done flawlessly and tastefully, it could really put off the general audience to Spider-Man. Let me put it in this perspective: it would be like the last Spider-Man comic you would ever read would be issue 121 or 122.

One might say, "Well, they killed off Rachel Dawes, Batman's love interest, in the second movie." And you're right. They did. But the filmmakers also went out of their way to make Dawes a character by her own right, not one whose romantic relationship to Bruce holds together an enormous part of the movie. Plainly, Rachel's relationship with Bruce was always more implied than played out. Maybe I'm heartless, but Rachel's death is not what I remember from The Dark Knight. The same should not be said of the character of Gwen Stacy.



To put it simply, at this point in time, Sony's Spider-Man films have the problem of keeping things too underdeveloped for Stacy's impact to truly leave an impact on audiences the same way it did with comic readers, or the problem of developing it to the point where we don't get a chance to see Peter Parker develop from the event.

So, what if Sony didn't kill off Gwen Stacy? What if they kept her around, developed her relationship with Peter, and allowed for the story-telling to take Peter to new heights as Spider-Man? I know, on the surface, it somewhat seems like blasphemy. But at the same time, the comics didn't introduce Gwen Stacy to be nothing but a plot device to develop Peter, so why should a new trilogy?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts about the "Stacy" problem, and I ask that you look at it not merely from a comic book fan's perspective, but from that as a filmmaker and general audience member.
About The Author:
BattlinMurdock
Member Since 3/19/2012
I like to chat about the Devil that does God's work and the Speedster who's late for dinner.

I write movies. And I can't fit my life into a description.

You can find me on Twitter @BattlinMurdock and you can check out my articles on WhatCulture! as well at this little hyperlink.
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RunDTC
RunDTC - 8/19/2012, 4:29 PM
maybe she should be STONED by an angry mob. get it? 0_o
BarnaclePete
BarnaclePete - 8/19/2012, 4:38 PM
If she killed in the third movie wouldn't do anything to defeat the purpose of building their relationship. That is why you built up their relationship and make it stronger. When her death finally comes it will have more meaning.
marvel72
marvel72 - 8/19/2012, 5:10 PM
yup she should die in the second movie at the hands of the green goblin,introduce mary jane at the end.

mary jane love intrest in the third movie.
EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 8/19/2012, 5:42 PM
I am sticking to my idea of having Goblin as the badguy in the second movie and kill of Gwen Stacy with a introduction of the symbiote after Gwen's death. The third movie being Spider-Man and Venom, have a sideplot being Aunt May trying to get Peter on a blind date with Mary Jane, and at the end of the movie have the Mary Jane reveal and the last line of the movie being "Face it tiger, you hit the jackpot." I think it would be a satisfying ending cause everyone knows who Mary Jane is AND I think it would be a satisfying ending for this Spider-Man trilogy.
Oxbow
Oxbow - 8/19/2012, 7:27 PM
good editorial, and great points. This is a separate Universe. There is no reason why Gwen Stacey has to become some cliche or bad punchline, as "the girl who dies." The "Death of Gwen Stacey" was a unique and emotional story arc that was revolutionary for its time! It would be lazy writing to rehash that plot, and would not have the same impact on people. It would be akin to trying to catch lightining in a bottle a second time.

I think it would be more shocking NOT to kill Gwen in the movies! Let their relationship blossom and fade, bring in Mary Jane for the love triangle, keep people wondering what will happen to Gwen. She can die if the story is enriched by it, but certainly don't do it as some ploy or out of an inability to come up with a decent plot, fr'chrissakes. Hollywood needs to show us that they can write their own gripping, enjoyable stories for once...
TayDee
TayDee - 8/19/2012, 7:34 PM
"we expect gwen stacy to be die"? ... She has to die, its part of what makes Peter Peter
Oxbow
Oxbow - 8/19/2012, 8:07 PM
But that's my point TayDee. TASM-verse is a parallel reality...where she is still alive. She doesn't HAVE to do anything. Peter can still save her in this reality. I like keeping it an open when/if she will die for the near future.


imagine...if they replaced that with another kirsten dunst-like MJ...They had their upside down kiss and that was it for the fire in that relationship! I like the relationship the actors have and think they still have a lot there to keep it interesting.
Bane2099
Bane2099 - 8/19/2012, 9:24 PM
Emma Stone already said herself that they have to kill Gwen, so if shes pulling for them to stay true to the source material, i dont see why Sony wouldnt want to kill her off.
AmazingFantasy
AmazingFantasy - 8/20/2012, 12:01 AM
Kill Gwen.
Peter goes after Goblin
Kills him out of rage
Regrets it.
Remembers Uncle Ben's line.
Guilt
Meets MJ
friends
Fall in love.

Done
BigDamnHero
BigDamnHero - 8/20/2012, 5:10 AM
I personally think that Gwen should die in the final act of the second movie. But they shouldn't introduce MJ as a love interest. That would be a huge mistake. it would remove all the impact from Gwen's death, and would probably feel really forced.
6of13
6of13 - 8/20/2012, 7:37 AM
Nice editorial. It is a bit of a conundrum. If they kill off Gwen, it would be a mistake to replace her with Mary Jane too quickly. But I do think that it would make things more interesting. I was thinking that Venom could be the next villain since the Venom suit would probably link to Peter's dad. If Venom was the villain, then I cannot say as to what capacity the Goblin would be featured in the film. If they focus a little more on Osborn before getting to the Goblin, then having Goblin be responsible for Gwen's death might not happen. Even though I think Venom could work, I am not if he would be included since he was already featured in SM3.
My point is is that Gwen's death actually depends on the villain or villains. Gwen's death (at least in the comic) is because of Goblin, although I suppose in the TASM sequel another villain could be responsible. However, I guess that if they decide to kill Gween off, they would use the Goblin to do so. Therefore, the Green Goblin would have to be the villain (or at least one of 2). I do question if the sequel would go for Goblin, again, instead of a villain that has not alrady been used. So it is a bit of a toss up: Go with Goblin and therefore Gwen's death or go with a new villain not used in any of the Spider-Man movies.
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 8/20/2012, 10:15 AM
I like this.
Of course I think Gwen should die, and yes it is the comic fan in me that takes over here. I would argue to your point about the time that has passed since the infamous issue, that at this point, the character of Gwen is now sort of defined by her death.

Even when they were making the 90s Spiderman cartoon they understood this, and opted not to even mention the character at all. I think this was a good decision because as great as Spectacular Spiderman is, its frustrating for me to see that the show brought her in, and for 2 seasons (and from their plans of a 3rd) they had no real intention of ever getting to this pivotal moment.
Like the Amazing Spiderman, there was a lot of cuteness and coy stop-and-start to that relationship, but it never fully became something, and its the type of pacing that suggests they were never going to get to it in time. Or that it would be too late. I understand its a kids show, and that material might be to heavy, but if that's their reasoning, why bother using Gwen at all?

In the movie, when it happens (and it better), it should be how the second film ends. She's already established from the first movie, so naturally, all need is to play the relationship a bit stronger. This is also where MJ should be brought in, so she's established by the time the 3rd movie hits, and a smooth transition with the love interests is made.
Use the 007 movies as an example, of how well they are able to juggle Bond girls as well as kill them off.

As a general moviegoer, dead love interests are something that people just don't want to see. They didn't even do anything with it in Spiderman 3. Everyone is so afraid to kill Gwen Stacy, that it makes me appreciate deaths like Rachel Dawes and Elektra all the more. Its not shock value- its a legitimate failure of the hero. And its what Peter Parker needs to become the Spider-Man he's supposed to be.
Oxbow
Oxbow - 8/20/2012, 10:41 AM
I thought the death of Uncle Ben was what defined Peter as a hero...

speaking of which, they kind of just glossed over that in the first movie. Even the search for his killer just kind of "petered" out....If they were gonna do his uncle's death in TASM and Gwen's death in the sequel, it would bog the story down even more than it already is. They had a really long relationship in the comics before Gwen died, anyway..

He lost his parents, his uncle... how many more loved ones NEED to die before people are happy? Is Peter Parker a cursed character now?
AutobotCommander84
AutobotCommander84 - 8/20/2012, 6:20 PM
We've had three films with Mary Jane as the main love interest. Not the Mary Jane we know and love from the comics, but Mary Jane nonetheless. In my mind, superhero films and comic book-related films in general should use the source material as inspiration and guidance, but they shouldn't directly adapt a storyline or a mini-series, especially for a long-running character like Spider-Man. Movies are a separate medium from comic books, and what works in a comic might not always work in a movie, and in my opinion, especially in the case of this universe that Marc Webb has created, The Death of Gwen Stacy does not. It seems to me that if The Spectacular Spider-Man animated series had carried on, Gwen would've been Peter's primary love interest, and wouldn't have died over the course of the series. So why shouldn't Marc Webb do the same with this new incarnation?
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 8/21/2012, 7:34 PM
See to me, they've already killed an extremely ESSENTIAL aspect of the Gwen Stacy romance, and that is not only making her in favor of Spider-man, but having Peter completely and utterly share EVERYTHING with her.

To me, it is important to remember that she died in the comics NOT knowing Spider-man's true identity.
---

Now I understand why they made this change, to a point at least, they wanted to deviate dramatically from Mary Jane by NOT leaving her in the dark about everything till say, the end of the sequel. BUT....
...why Gwen? I wish they had something with Betty, and I would have WELCOMED the change to let Peter tell her that he's Spider-man. Hell, that would have made things a whole lot more interesting considering her profession.

I think we all know that Gwen will die - but I don't know how Sony can do it without COMPLETELY rehashing the Green Goblin arc.
JasonCYates
JasonCYates - 8/22/2012, 9:43 PM
I think that will be the ending of the 3rd movie, I think there is a build up to a Goblin showdown that'll take place throughout the trilogy.
CaptainAmerica31
CaptainAmerica31 - 8/23/2012, 7:25 PM
I think they should kill gwen becasue it could have more of a impactful feeling. Like how in the previous trilogy raimi developed the relationship and you couldn't imagin Peter Parker without MJ. Same goes for the new one except the romance was so much better and fleshed out that you can't picture Peter Parker falling for anyone else but he has too becasue he kills her by accident. I also think it is foreshadowed that Gwen will die and she will so in the hands of Norman Osborn/Green goblin becasue

1. " maybe broken promises are the best kind" line was a promise Peter broke. The promise was made by captain Stacey he said to leave Gwen out of his life becasue loved ones will get hurt. Meaning Gwen will get hurt, he doesn't want her to get hurt. Peter breaks that promise and Gwen stays with him but she is captured and killed. Peter learns the lesson about responsibility and to never let your loved ones into the vigilante life.


2. The constant references to Oscorp and Norman Osborn which also plays into the parents story line, becasue we know that they worked for Oscorp and were related to Connors who also had bad blood with Osborn like Peters dad( yea the parents were not a dropped storyline but rather transformed into the central plot which was Connors and his plan to destroy NYC). So anyways we find out( the audience not Peter) that Osborn had peters parents killed becase Peters dad didn't want to help Osborn create the goblin serum which would make him really strong and cure him. Osborn is pissed at Gwen becasue she refused to sleep with him and is mad at Peter becasue he thinks he got Harry to do drugs and believes that he is trying to tear his family apart. Thus he kills Gwen.
CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious - 8/24/2012, 3:12 PM
The only reason Gwen died in the comics is because Marvel didn't know what to do with her anymore. They simply ran out of ideas. If the movies can find a way to give the character more to do, she may actually survive this trilogy.

About Peter breaking Captain Stacy's promise at the end, I felt that was totally out of character. It's one of the gripes I have with Spidey as character even though I'm a fan. Despite his "With great power comes great responsiblity" line, Peter is an irresponsible person. If he truly took those words to heart, then Peter would distance himself from Gwen.
CaptainAmerica31
CaptainAmerica31 - 8/25/2012, 9:41 AM
@captainobvious you're right it is irresisponisble but I think he learns this whole responsiblity thing whenever Gwen dies or he learns the importance of it. It's good character development if you ask me.
MaximumSpider
MaximumSpider - 8/27/2012, 1:05 PM
In lots of ways the death of Gwen made peter grow from a spider boy to a spider man. But in order for this work she should die in the 3rd movie. It should be the third movie because the death of Gwen should be heart wrenching for peter and the audience. The films need more time to fall in love with the character. Also because MJ should be introduced as a love interest while Gwen is alive like it was in the comics. The second movie should introduce mj as a posible love interest with peter choosing Gwen at the end of the second movie. Gwen shouldn't die at the end of the 3rd movie but early in the 3rd act.
PeterParker1991
PeterParker1991 - 8/27/2012, 1:20 PM
Nice article. I've always preferred Gwen Stacy over Mary Jane. Dunst's portrayal of Mary Jane was absolutely terrible, nothing like the character. I was relieved when it was announced that Gwen was going to be the love interest for "Amazing". Relieved that history wouldn't repeat itself. Peter and Gwen's relationship I feel has been fleshed out well throughout the movie, better than Maguire and Dunst's wooden performance which honestly put me to sleep. Anyway, since Gwen dying is inevitable I feel she should indeed die in the third film at the hands of the Goblin. Mary Jane should be introduced at the end with her famous line we all know and love thus to leave enough open for another potential trilogy. By then, Garfield and the other cast members will probably depart, or they'll just put Parker in college. I like what Webb has done with the new series. Much closer to the comics, especially concerning Peter's personality. Hoping Gwen's death is done justice.
iuhgluiblbjjkhkjhkljh
iuhgluiblbjjkhkjhkljh - 9/7/2012, 9:25 PM
Leave it out, dammit. We have a good thing here. Why kill her off? She's much better than Mary Jane.
freaknirah97
freaknirah97 - 12/17/2012, 10:45 PM
i think killing gwen is not necessary.i mean,everybody knows the original story,but why not make a new one.it could attract more people to watch it because nobody knows what will happen and trust me,people want to know.
freaknirah97
freaknirah97 - 12/17/2012, 10:48 PM
and by the way,i think emma stone did a great job playing gwen.and i think it's a waste to kill the character that can give a big impact on the movie.most people(the crazy ones)like mary jane better than gwen(i don't know why n it's just crazy),but like captain stacy said "most people would be wrong"
freaknirah97
freaknirah97 - 12/17/2012, 10:49 PM
i agree with CaptainCanti
freaknirah97
freaknirah97 - 12/17/2012, 10:52 PM
why someone must die in any movie,especially my favorite characters,not just my favourite,but everyone's favourite.killing a character(in this case,gwen) is very risky,because we don't know how it would impact the movie.
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